Minister of Justice Choo Mi-ae at the government office of Gwacheon <한겨레>I am interviewing with Gwacheon/Chang-Kwang Kang Senior Reporter [email protected]
Justice Minister Choo Mi-ae has been at the center of the news for the past year and has been a target of sharp controversy. Investigative command, which was once private, was repeatedly exercised, and unprecedented disciplinary action against the prosecutor general was promoted. On the 16th of last month, after expressing appreciation with Prosecutor General Yoon Seok-yeol’s request for disciplinary action, a candidate for the successor minister was nominated, and the Ministry of Justice gave up the immediate appeal after the request for a temporary injunction was accepted by the court, and the dust seemed to temporarily subside. However, the magnetic field created by the conflict between the two values of’democratic control over the prosecution’ and’the prosecution’s independence and neutrality’, which cannot be limited to the frame of the’Chu-yoon conflict’, is still large. The old and unfamiliar structural problems and democratic principles surrounding the prosecution, one of the largest authorities in our society, throw long question marks. These are issues that require sufficient reflection. At the end of his term of office, Minister Chu was again on the cutting board. More than 1,000 detainees were confirmed with Corona 19 at the Seoul East Detention Center. Criticism is fierce for the correctional facility becoming the largest infected area for the third epidemic. Minister Chu apologized twice. In an interview held at the Ministry of Justice on the afternoon of the 4th, Minister Chu repeatedly apologized, saying, “As the final officer, I regret to the people very much.”
―How do you determine the cause of the rapid spread of infection in the Seoul Eastern Detention Center?
“The Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating the exact cause, such as the association between the confirmed case of employees in late November and the infection of large-scale prisoners in December. The irradiation takes about 2 weeks. The Dongbu Detention Center is a dense, close, and closed’three-mil facility’ with tight separation distances between buildings on high floors and a screen between buildings. Structural problems such as air flow and ventilation, and problems with managing the movement of the occupants will be examined. In the early days of the outbreak, it was not possible to know how to manage the traffic line. This is because the quarantine authorities are scientifically different from what we see at the administrative level. According to the results of the analysis, a manual is created and distributed to other detention facilities, and the problems of Dongbu detention center are also improved.”
―After the outbreak of the confirmed case, full-scale examinations were not conducted immediately, and the response was delayed.
“When the confirmed case occurred, diagnosis and examination were conducted according to the guidelines, centering on the employees and prisoners who contacted. On December 14, the first confirmed case among prisoners occurred, and a full inspection was conducted on December 18 in consultation with the local quarantine authorities. Currently, the Disaster Management Act requires that disaster zones be declared only by region, but for large-scale accommodation facilities such as correctional facilities, there is a regret that it would have been if the manager in charge had the authority to take emergency measures for each facility and obtain cooperation from other authorities. Even now, people with mild cases are classified and sent to the Defense Language Institute, but if they are sent out after arrest or execution is suspended, the prison personnel are no longer in charge, so the police or military authorities must cooperate with the security. That will take some time. If you have emergency means under the Disaster Management Act, you will be able to introduce personnel sooner and thoroughly quarantine. When I first went through this situation, I am regretful if there had been a means to take action more quickly.”
―Sometimes the Ministry of Justice rejected a complaint from an inmate asking for a health mask to be purchased.
“The sedation case was a request for asthma patients to purchase a health mask in February last year, and it is not directly related to quarantine. Regarding quarantine, it was before the 5th subtitle mask was settled, and there was a scarcity of masks on the market. Since there were no cases of patients in the correctional facility, the facility was in a safer condition than that of ordinary citizens, so a cotton mask was made and worn. From November 30th, prisoners were also allowed to purchase masks of KF80 or higher, and now KF94 masks are provided once a day.”
―There were reports that the detainees who appealed for help by sticking out a hand sign from the window in the Eastern Detention Center would be disciplined.
“I have not received a report. When the freedom of the body is deprived, fear and anxiety come first. It would have been more anxious as it spread to infectious diseases. It is said that there were cases of refusing food and assaulting guards. It is one of the acts that revealed anxiety. Dedicated doctors provide face-to-face and non-face-to-face counseling, as well as psychological healing for mental stability. There seems to be no discipline.”
―Aren’t the usual problems of correctional facilities, such as overcrowding, also the cause of large-scale infection?
“That is the most serious cause. The infectious disease hits the weak ring of 3 mils, and the acceptance rate of Incheon and Suwon detention centers exceeds 130%, reaching 140%. Other countries impose restrictions that if 90% of them are accepted, they can no longer receive them. However, since the reality is more than 130%, we need to improve urgently in the era of infectious diseases.”
―If so, shouldn’t the accommodation facilities be expanded?
“To prevent infectious diseases, it is a problem of the immune system, so correctional facilities must be equipped with a playground and well-lit. The policy direction of remodeling existing facilities into buildings like the Eastern Detention Center must be changed. Also, since it is a hate facility, it is very difficult to expand it. We cannot do everything by expanding facilities, and I think that the judicial system and investigative practices must be changed drastically. It is also an issue related to the reform of the prosecution. The number of inmates can be drastically reduced if the courts can sufficiently argue for innocence under the party’s legal system and avoid the principle of detention. There are about 50,000 inmates now, and that number has not changed for more than 10 years.”
―What are the additional countermeasures to prevent the spread of infection in correctional facilities?
“Once the capacity was cut in half by yesterday. Non-confirmed persons are sent to local facilities and, if possible, individual management systems have been established. There are reports that none of the patients being treated have a serious prognosis. In case a serious patient arises, a linkage system with external hospitals has been established. I would like to tell you that we are responding with an all-out system so that the situation can be settled as soon as possible.”
―Recently, Lee Nak-yeon, representative of the Democratic Party, brought out a pardon for former presidents Lee Myung-bak and Park Geun-hye.
“I don’t think it would be desirable to mention it. However, it seems that the cry of the candlelight rally in the 2016~7 year of the Party’s representative was striking in my ears and that desperate heart did not fade. If social change is somewhat irreversible, it seems that even those who participated in the candlelight rally can become a mind of forgiveness and reconciliation.However, in a situation where resistance to reform is still much greater and it is difficult to overcome every hurdle of reform The great impact of the term “slope” itself can be measured. It’s very painful to talk about the amnesty right now.”
―What are some important achievements in relation to the reform of the prosecution after taking office as the minister?
“First of all, I think it is meaningful to adjust the prosecutors’ right to investigate the prosecutors’ right starting from the new year and the launch of the airlift. The second is that as a minister, he exercised desirable democratic control in relation to the Supreme Prosecutor’s Office through the right of personnel, investigation and command, and inspection. When I was a former prosecutor, I commanded it comfortably and supported it without being awkward at all, but when a so-called non-prosecutor came in, I became awkward and distorted excessively through the media and became noisy. As a result, the leadership of the minister became private and uncomfortable. As a minister with the ultimate responsibility to implement criminal justice justice, it set a precedent for civil control by reviving and operating the privately-crafted prosecutors’ office law Article 8 investigation command clause. I want to give it a meaning that the relationship between the Ministry of Justice and the prosecution should be remembered as the first year of its original appearance. Next, the Prosecutor General also declared the principle of democratic control, saying that if there is a mistake, you can be disciplined. It can be said to be a year of showing that there are no sanctuary or exceptions to abuse of authority.”
-Democratic control is a value that conflicts with the prosecution’s independence and neutrality. How do you think this problem should be solved?
“The conflict is natural. Although the principle of democracy is check and balance, is it possible to check that is not noisy? It is not a check to just say’I’m wrong’ if you tell me something. I don’t want to express it as a conflict, but I want to say it is’monitoring’ that is necessary for all systems of democracy. Although the Minister does not have the right to investigate, it is the purpose of Article 8 of the Prosecutors’ Office Act to see if the justice of criminal justice is realized in the field. When the prosecution breaks down the justice of criminal justice by itself, it is to exercise the authority to command the investigation through monitoring, and the prosecutor general also accepted that as a’right to form’. On the contrary, when the politicians press the ministers to impart a fair investigation, the prosecution can raise an objection to’why break down independence and neutrality’. Rather than a crash, our system is actively working, and I think that’s desirable.”
―Some view that the exercise of authority for democratic control was too frequent.
“As a minister, I want to tell you that I was monitoring hard without giving up my job. I think that is the true form of the system that democratic citizens want.”
―Some believe that there is an intention to check the investigation of the current regime.
“no. If you look closely at the point of view, you will see that the argument is a gang-gang. When he was appointed as minister, the investigation of former Minister Cho Kook was already over, and the case was indicted, and the Ulsan case was soon prosecuted. It is time that the investigation into the investigation of Yoo Jae-soo’s prosecutor’s office is over. Investigative command was exercised in cases related to the president’s relatives and close associates, or in cases of internal corruption at the prosecution. In the case of the Lime case, the ruling party politician was unreasonably tried, but as a result of the investigation, the opposition party politician was prosecuted.”
―Some people pointed out that they were penalizing prosecutors who investigated government-related cases through greetings.
“Twice times, we focused on normalizing abnormalities in which major positions are concentrated among people from specific departments, preferential treatment for criminal and court prosecutors, and selection of excellent female prosecutors. I also cannot agree to accuse it of being a person to control certain investigations.”
-In the end, the court for disciplinary punishment by Prosecutor General Yoon Seok-yeol was accepted. When you look back now, do you think discipline was necessary?
“The prosecutor-general is basically a public servant, and he is guaranteed a high degree of political neutrality and has to defend himself. This is not because the president’s position is a sanctuary like a remote island, but because he must obey the justice of criminal justice. If the prosecution is unable to defend justice due to a political draft, the minister should be a screen, but if the prosecutors self-police, the minister has to put a brake. It is not desirable for the Prosecutor General to personalize the entire organization, and it can be understood that it is a process in which the Minister exercises command and supervision to normalize. The disciplinary committee would have taken comprehensive considerations such as the term of office of the president, but the seriousness of the matter determined that the dismissal was considerable. There is no reason to say that the disciplinary claim was unreasonable now. It is rather my job abandonment if I see discipline. In the process of disciplinary action, those who became reasons for disciplinary action did not receive social attention. On the other hand, there were many reports of flaws on the disciplinary committees. It is an unfair question to ask’do you regret the discipline’ in such a slanted playground.”
―As the so-called’Chu-Yun conflict’ emerged and the individual prosecutor general was overly emphasized, did the institutional aspects of the prosecution reform become obscured?
“The prosecution reform is a much higher concept. It is not that only the current president has a point to reform, but that the abuse of the prosecution power that has continued for 70 years is not desirable for the definition of criminal justice. It is a different level from that of President Yoon’s personal problem. Yoon’s personal issues were warned and imprinted by exercising democratic control as a minister. The’Chu-Yoon Conflict’ is a frame that resists the reform of the prosecution, and through this, I believe that the essence of the reform of the prosecution has been destroyed.”
Minister of Justice Choo Mi-ae at the government office of Gwacheon <한겨레>I am interviewing with Gwacheon/Chang-Kwang Kang Senior Reporter [email protected]
-The court gave up the appeal for accepting the request for provisional injunction.
“I accepted the general recommendations of the staff that it would be better to focus on the main case. As there are many worries about the legal administration field, such as the infectious disease in the Eastern Detention Center, the atmosphere was to focus on the case and deal with the current issues first.”
-It gives the impression of accepting the court judgment.
“Not like that. I stated that it is difficult to accept the court’s judgment that the evaded person should not be included in the quorum of decision, as seen in various cases.”
-In the new year, in various media polls, President Yoon was the first to third president of the presidential election. The media is actually dealing with the presidential election runners. How do you view this phenomenon?
“It is reported that’polypecer’ is a problem in Korea, but in the United States, it is said that there is no controversy that people who have been checked with expertise and abilities go into politics to serve. The problem is getting on the train of desire for power while not having expertise and no attitude to serve. Even though university professors are free to join a political party, their behavior is controversial, and the prosecutor general, who is legally responsible for maintaining a high degree of political neutrality, should not be so. I think of the new term’polisecutor’ (politics + prosecutor: political prosecutors) that borrowed Polepessa. Isn’t it that way already?”
―Although the prosecution reform is an object of interest, there seems to be a perception that it is a problem that is far from the daily lives of the citizens and the lives of the people.
“I think the opposite. When he was asked what he would put up as a vision while coming as a minister, he replied that he wanted to say that it is a’comfortable country where the people are respected’. When the power of prosecution increases, the people are not respected. There are people who have done too many forced investigations, ruined their lives with the investigation method and wrong exercise of the prosecution’s powers that the defense did not work. It’s not someone else’s job. Anyone can become such a victim due to the legal issues we face all the time in our lives. That is why it is the basic right of a country where the people are respected that the exercise of the prosecution’s power should be just and fair. The first problem I encountered as a minister was that only prosecutors who wanted to be buried and put into socially noticeable investigations were held in key positions, and the detectives and prosecutors who worked silently were alienated. On the front line, I heard a lot of complaining that I couldn’t handle even if I worked hard every day with 200 to 300 unproclaimed cases. In the end, this means that people’s livelihood is stagnant. If the case is put in a cabinet and the prosecution is not done, people’s livelihood will be affected as much.”
―This is an old problem with the prosecution. What do you think is the cause?
“I saw a book and found the word’responsiveness’. When I looked at it, it seemed to refer to public officials being open and sensitive to social demands. I wonder if the prosecution’s organization lacks it. While putting the value of human rights to the fore, he emphasized the importance of becoming a prosecutors’ organization that responds sensitively to social demands and cultural interests. It is the case of N (n) room. Victims filed petitions to the National Assembly and relentlessly pursued the perpetrators themselves. Without it, the killer would not have been caught. However, I was amazed at how the prosecution organization could be so insensitive to such problems. Looking at the people caught before that, the old was also very low below expectations. Women’s organizations have been knocking for a long time, but the Ministry of Justice has never responded to an interview with the minister. It was my first time to meet you right away. I think it’s important to have a resilient attitude to respond to these problems.”
-In the future, there is a growing voice that a complete separation of the right to investigate and prosecute should be achieved.
“In February of last year, even if the prosecutors said they would separate the investigation and prosecution team even if the prosecution directly investigates the six crimes due to the adjustment of the power of investigation, there were a lot of organizational opposition, such as being unable to think of a prosecutor without the right to prosecute or that the investigation served in prosecution. However, all advanced judicial systems do so, and Korea is the only country that has investigative personnel directly in the prosecutor’s office. After conducting the investigation into the Lime case, the entertainment of the prosecutor was revealed. I split it up so as not to exceed 1 million won for entertainment, but the person who provided the entertainment couldn’t enter the denominator. They made a conclusion that was far from the reality and abused the prosecution’s convenience. Through this, it made me feel that the separation of investigation and prosecution is correct. Now, I think the prosecutors themselves are calling for reform. Also, among the reasons for punishment by President Yun, there are cases related to his aide. The lack of neutrality and independence of the investigation team within the prosecution led people to understand,’Is there a way to investigate when I wrap my family in there?’ That’s why the launch of the air defense agency is taken for granted, and the separation of investigation and prosecution also creates such an atmosphere.”
―What are you regretting about leaving your position as a minister?
“There was something I wanted to check after putting the prosecution reform on track. The principle of separation of investigation and prosecution is the realization of the justice of criminal justice. Police investigators realize justice through activities such as arresting criminals on the spot, and prosecutors realize justice by monitoring whether the investigation process is legal or the law is properly applied. However, since the court of investigation was viewed as a rice bowl fight, no one was interested in establishing a relationship between the two. There are no specific war criminals, only the words of the swordsman’s command and obedience relationship have been changed into cooperation. In Japan, it is said that in the case of complex cases, the prosecutor’s guidance is provided in an advisory format. Consultation and guidance are not command and obedience. It is like the command of an orchestra conductor. As a legal expert, guiding the legal composition should not be viewed as a vertical relationship and should not be rejected. As the final officer in the criminal justice process, I wanted to lead this relationship.”
-Still, the main reason for resigning?
“Sometimes I get caught on a stone and sometimes I fall. Even if it’s not me, someone else can do it.”
-What are your plans after the ministerial office? Do you have any plans to run for the upcoming elections?
“I haven’t imagined it yet because he said he would not imagine politically until it became the prosecution reform. When the job ends, I will think about it then.”
Editorial Writer Park Yong-hyun [email protected]